• Sue glances at Arsul, weighing his alleged sins. "It is true that I honor the most rational gods, obey the most beautiful wisdom, and love the most divine music. How then is it a sin? You imply that I have been misled. How?"
• Eklem has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)

Dionysus "Is void evil?" an athak asks.

• Sue fixes the box.

Dionysus ...You mean OOC, I think?

Sue yes

Dionysus Okay.

Sue "Void is a force, a thing. It has no will of its own. It is as evil, or as good, as its wielder."

Dionysus "Who wields void?" a Galdunic asks.

• Eklem (~gilbertt@benjaminmiller.net) has joined #dunmanifestin

Dionysus r void 25

Eklem Dionysus [void: 25] 26 27 33

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 32 34 35

Dionysus You see Sue turning the questions around on them

Arsul "Circular logic is helpful here Sue. I think you're doing well."

Sue "Many wield void. I do, as do all children of void. Some members of other races. And its Father. Some of these people are good, and some are evil."

Dionysus "You trust the father?" an athak asks.

Sue "Logically, I have no choice but to trust him. If assume he is untrustworthy and I turn against him, I will be destroyed. If I assume he is trustworthy, I may be able to increase the beauty and reason of the world. It is the very choice of life to presume that one's life's good will outweigh the bad, and thereafter to do everything that can be done to increase the likelihood of that presumption being true."

Dionysus "And if doing his bidding is evil? If being destroyed is the only way to avoid evil?"

Sue "Then I must trust that the greater forces of good will destroy me and stop him."

Dionysus "Blindness. Blind trust of that you have no reason to trust. Adrift, alone. You cannot swim, & nor can your friend. You are a vessel of evil," a child Toutant says

Sue "What creature is not blind? All creatures have compulsions that they must follow. To eat and make the fertile land barren; to excrete and make ruin of beauty; to reproduce and overrun the world. By your logic, all living things must be destroyed. But though life has existed for so long, these things have rarely come to pass, and the world has always renewed itself."

Dionysus "You trust the forces of good to protect you from doing evil, should your blindness lead you to it?"

Sue "To lose all trust is to go mad. A man must trust in gravity or never leave his home. Do you trust in nothing?"

Arsul Does Magnum need help?

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 27 33 34

Dionysus He is still trapped, but he's getting free. Sue just struck a good chord, so to speak.

Dionysus "We trust history."

Sue "The history of my life shows that the Void Father will aid a good cause, when his reason leads Him to do so. What does your history show?"

Arsul "You are doing well." he says to Sue

• Sue allows himself the hint of a grin.

Arsul it is lost on all but the athaks I assume

Dionysus "History shows us that he manipulates others who trust in reason. That those who trust in the forces of good to know evil when they see it should think reasomnably about their judgments of the Void-Father."

Dionysus A premonition, Arsul: this is returning to shakey ground for Magnum;'s sake.

Arsul "Be careful here."

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 26 27 32

Sue "The forces of good which I have met have accepted me. Are you a 'force of good'?"

Arsul anything he can use to his advatage/

Arsul ?

Arsul advantage

Arsul and I mean sue

Dionysus Arsul, Sue's beating you to it.

Dionysus "We are a force of judgment. We use the past to understand the present."

• Arsul nods approvingly, not knowing what sue said exactly

Dionysus Oh, the vision, Arsul: Sue should get personal.

Dionysus About the specific ghosts.

Sue "I will take into consideration what you have said. But I will not destroy myself in despair, when hope has been offered to me by so many."

Sue What ghost am I speaking to?

Dionysus A child Toutant, this one.

Arsul "Turn things around to the individuals if you can. It'll help."

• Sue glances at Arsul. "What can you tell me about this one?"

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 26 27 34

Arsul who's he speaking to?

Dionysus Louis Toutant, child of you & a human woman, killed at the age of 9, some 30 years ago, by a Stillborn paladin.

Arsul "Louis. He was killed by a follower of the Stillborn cult. As many of my children have been."

Arsul "He was young, less than a decade old."

• Sue looks down, then to the spirit. "Louis. You were cut down at a young age. Your potential was unknown. I am older than you were, but still young, as athaks count age. I have many years ahead of me, as you might have. I have made many mistakes, and will make many more, but you were not allowed even this. Would you see another life unlived for such a petty reason?"

Dionysus "You walk a path that may lead to many lives unlived. Do you ask if the price of yours is worth the price of theirs?"

Sue "What number of mortal lives saved will justify the genocide of the entire world?"

Dionysus A pause, then the room begins to shake & shift. A door hitherto not there opens.

• Sue startles and looks to Arsul.

Arsul where should we go now?

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 28 29 33

Dionysus Through the door. Magnum opened it. He still swims.

Arsul all of us go through it?

• Sue follows Arsul if he moves.

Dionysus Louis says, "Your faith is in yourself."

Dionysus Yes

Arsul "We'll all go through it together. Magnum, you can come back now." he calls the last across the water

Dionysus Err, no, Magnum needs to keep going

Dionysus He's well past it

Dionysus Sorry

Dionysus The next room is a tall, vaulted chamber with a series of columns & clocks, with one huge central grandfather clock with the world as its face.

Dionysus Here, Arsul, are your ancestors. Sue, yours are here, too, but many fewer than Arsul's, a direct line of them, back & back. Magnum's are here, scattered.

Arsul oh ok

• Arsul would walk with sue to the next room

Dionysus An athak speaks, "You bring one whose sins are abandonment here. Think you he is worthy?"

Sue "I think so. I suppose we will now discuss the question?"

Arsul r pro 25 who is Sue speaking to?

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 27 29 35

Dionysus Obtiquim Ixioj, the progenitor of his line on Second Shem.

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 32 33 33

Dionysus He killed his mother to get power over the clan, & founded the first city in Uodzopul.

Arsul what in his life can sue use to his advantage?

Arsul oh ok

Dionysus Progenitor of the name, not hte line. Obviously, there were others of his blood before him

Arsul "This is Obtiquim. He began your family on this version of Shem. He killed his own mother to gain power before founding a city in the ground."

Arsul your family, as it is now named, on this...

• Sue nods. "I remember the name. That was a bloody time for our people. But killing his mother was an act of naked betrayal which was never redeemed, as I recall."

Dionysus "The reverbrations of my sins have long waned. The Toutant's sins are fresh still."

Arsul "And he speaks of my sins."

Arsul nevermind

Sue "We shall see. Tell me more of Arsul's sins."

Dionysus "Dozens of children have fallen to dark blades because he was not there for them. Dozens of women, crushed because he did not remain to care for them. His own body wracked with disease because of his vices. His mother died alone, without him... And hubris. He thinks it his destiny to redeem, but he thinks not for himself, but looks to the threads, which can mislead."

• Sue smiles. "The last spirit told me that I was blind for being trusting. This one says that Arsul is blind for seeking the truth. It seems we can't win."

Arsul "I didn't know of these things till it was too late. And I know that fate must be made, not solely read."

Arsul he says that to sue

Dionysus The souls smiles, "You twist words. Your sins are the same: the first is blind trust, & so is the second. From whence came his ability?"

Sue "All powers come from the gods. Would you blame us for trespassing in their garden which is the world?"

Arsul "It is a family trait."

• Sue looks to Arsul. "Was there a first?"

Dionysus "Are all Gifts to be trusted?"

Arsul "Yes. But it was when this iteration of Shem was very new."

Sue "That is a false generalization. We do not trust Arsul's prophesies because they come from the Gods, but because they have guided us to victory."

Dionysus "How do you know this is a victory?"

Sue "Because we are in the second room, here, on the moon."

Dionysus "What do you gain here?"

Dionysus Arsul, Sue is no longer guiding this conversation.

Arsul "Be careful. You must turn the conversation around and against him once more."

Sue "How our goal here relevant to the issue of Arsul's sins?"

Sue s/How/How is/

Dionysus "You argue that your victories are evidence of the trustworthiness of his powers, but you cannot prove you have any victories."

Sue "Victory is defined arbitrarily, not by material gain. We sought to face my sins in the first room and are now in the second room. What we have attempted was achieved, and thus we are victorious."

Dionysus "You define victory narrowly."

Arsul "I saved at least one of my children from a horrible fate."

Sue "Then you define it, and I will tell you how Arsul's prophesies have guided us to it."

Dionysus "A victory born of his visions would be both long in the coming & long lasting, one that benefits your ultimate goal."

Sue "Arsul provided critical information I used to defeat two fearsome enemies on Uur Sodzul, bringing an end to a long war and securing the empire as our patron, both in our greater quest, and as long as it and I survive. Does that satisfy all points of your definition?"

Dionysus "A lasting victory, certainly. So you've solid reason to trust his visions. It is not blind faith. This does not excuse his other sins."

Sue "You speak of his abandonment of his family."

Dionysus "Yes."

• Arsul frowns

Sue "You call it abandonment, but since he used all resources at his disposal to find his children, once he learned of their existence, are those children still 'abandoned'?"

Dionysus "He was reckless. He did not think, in the past, nor did he understand his own potency."

Sue "Was it not reckless to slay your mother? Did you not underestimate your own ability to sway your clan? Would they not have followed you on your own merits?"

Dionysus "She fought progress. Her influence was too strong."

Sue "And what prevented you from influencing her? Were your arguments too weak, or did you simply lack vision?"

Dionysus He flinches, & the walls shatter.

Dionysus He begs, almost, "I... It was for the best." And then fades.

Dionysus Arsul, Magnum has swum into the deepest parts of the river. He is near the Origins.

Dionysus In the next chamber, it is only Magnum's dead... wife.

• Sue frowns. "That one was easy. I guess I'm a better sinner than you are, Arsul."
• Arsul grins

Dionysus [You just ripped control of the convo from him very well at the end there]

Arsul "I'm not sure about that. Gods know I tried when I was your age."

Dionysus Magnum's wife says, "He struck me, once."

• Sue looks around for another spirit, then startles at her voice. "Oh! Who? You mean, Magnum?"

Sue To Arsul, "Who is this?"

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 29 32 34

Arsul who is in front of Sue?

Dionysus Arsul, his former wife, killed not three weeks ago by the Loather. She left him when he struck her, because of his national pride, which she insulted. Her children ran away & entered darker enterprises, drugs, smuggling.

Arsul "It's --Magnum's wife. They hadn't lived together in a while. He hit her, when she insulted Galdhun andhim. All of their children left and fell in with bad sorts."

Arsul and him

• Sue frowns and turns back to her. "Losing his family is Magnum's only regret in life."

Dionysus She says, "He squandered our money on... little dainty toys, & when I confronted him, he hid behind his blood. When I fought him, he resorted to violence."

Sue "Were you very poor?"

Dionysus "After he was through, certainly."

Sue "I mean when you had your falling out, were you very poor?"

Dionysus "He squandered our fortune, if that's what you mean."

Sue "All of it? His toys consumed your entire fortune? When you had your fight, there was nothing to eat?"

Dionysus "We didn't have much left. Had we stayed together, his lust would have driven us into destitution completely."

Sue "Arsul, is that true?"

Sue "What did you say to him?"

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 27 32 34

Dionysus He has a bizarre affinity to little ceramic statues, Arsul, that fetch thousands for collectors. He has five of them, four of which cost thousands (the other was from the Sathers). It ruined their family fortune, left them in dire straits financially, & it was her leaving him that even remotely took him out of that road to ruin, that & his fight with the ogre

Arsul rpro 25

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 30 30 33

Arsul would he give them up to get his family back?

Dionysus "I told him his precious Galdunic blood made him weak."

Dionysus Arsul, at this point, yes

Arsul "He would give them up to have them back."

Sue "Why did you say that?"

Dionysus "I had discovered his problem, our money troubles, all of it. He claimed he could fix things, that he was Galdunic & could come back... I snapped at him to hurt him."

Sue "You succeededd. He lost control and struck you. Do you regret hurting him, as he regrets hurting you?"

Dionysus A pause, "I do."

• Arlie_B (~jt@c-69-255-34-176.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #dunmanifestin

Dionysus "I'm sorry, Jim."

Sue To Arsul, "Er, can Magnum hear us from over there?"

Dionysus And you hear Magnum say, "I'm sorry, Maggie."

Arsul "Don't let her impede his swimming."

Dionysus And then, the whole temple fades. Arsul, you are alone on a plain. It's the distant past.

Arsul I'm assuming I can't see that it's a plain

Arsul r pro 25

Eklem Arsul [pro: 25] 29 31 31

Dionysus You feel the open air, smell the plains. Your visions don't come to you. It's like they don't exist. You hear the flap of wings, & then, a click. Someone's walking with a walking stick.

Arsul which direction do we need to take?

Dionysus "Hello, Toutant," a smooth, fiery voice says.

Arsul "Hello."

• Sue looks toward the voice.
• Arsul turns his head toward the voice

Dionysus Sue, you're not there. As I said, Arsul is alone.

Sue Oops, sorry.

Dionysus No worries.

Dionysus "You've made it. This is the moment of the deal. Will you take it?"

Arsul "Never with you."

Dionysus "Will you play my game, Toutant?" He laughs. "Oh? And so I take the powers away? All those ancestors of yours, all those descendents, yourself? No visions? You become mundane? All that has come of your powers.... ceases to be?"

Arsul "I will not give you my own visions willingly."

Dionysus "This is the Origin, Toutant. You the first dealmaker. If you say no now, none of your family will have any visions at all. I don't ask for your visions. I offer them to you."

Arsul "And in return? What was our price?"

Dionysus "The game is this: your bloodline's eyes capture time, & I, if I am clever enough to capture your names or the visions you are granted, will gain the Last Note. I get nothing but the opportunity to earn the skill you possess."

Arsul (what is the Last Note? Would Arsul know?)

Dionysus Every time he plays a musical contest, he loses because the last note is sour. If he gets the Last Note, it will no longer be the case.

Arsul (so with visions, he'll be able to play properly?)

Dionysus He'd gain your musical aptitude.

Dionysus It's like he'd win at bingo & get a prize.

Arsul this is a hard decision

Dionysus I have no guidance for you

Arsul wait, I still have my holy symbol

Dionysus Yes

Arsul I pray for guidance

Dionysus Roll?

Arsul r fate 7+5

Eklem Arsul [fate: 7+5=12] 18 20 21

Dionysus r diff 13

Eklem Dionysus [diff: 13] 14 18 20

Dionysus Well, you see two paths: If you take the deal, nothing changes. Your family is tainted with the deal, but also has the power & the Devil's interest. If you dont' take the deal, you create a paradox & reality breaks.

Arsul so lose-lose

Arsul got it

Sue What about Arsul's hand?

Dionysus Yes.

Dionysus I'll get to that.

Arsul "We keep the deal. This has happened already. I can't change it, really."

Dionysus He laughs, "Damned if you do..."

Dionysus And you awaken back in the temple in agonizing pain. Sue, no time has passed. Magnum's wife fades from view, & Magnum emerges from the river of time.

Arsul "Exactly. Why are we blocked from seeing you?"

• Arsul screams

Arsul rather, bellows

Dionysus Magnum is holding in his mirthril hand a shining, ethereal hand.

• Sue startles. "Arsul?"

Arsul (does the pain start to fade?)

Dionysus He whispers, "I have the hand. It's... strange."

Dionysus Yes

Dionysus It fades quickly.

• Arsul is on his hands and knees for a moment. "It's okay."

Arsul "It's over."

Arsul hand, wrist and knees rather

Dionysus Magnum approaches, "Your hand."

Arsul "Thank you, my friend. I appreciate what you both have faced in coming here."

Dionysus He kneels before you.

Arsul he holds out his left hand to take the new hand

Dionysus He places the ethereal hand on your stump, & they fuse.

Sue "Something similar happened in nightmare. I liked this version better."

Dionysus You feel as it fuses every lost child of yours within it, every ancestor since the Deal...

Dionysus They are all there, part of you now.

Dionysus You bear the past, present, & future.

• Arsul flexes his hand instinctively but flinches away from it at the same time

Dionysus Magnum gasps, "I can't say I liked either."

Dionysus "Let's get out of here."

• Arsul frowns. "Let's."